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Thread: Kaperoni Rebutt to ****** Redom Chat

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    Administrator Jwdwrd's Avatar
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    Kaperoni Rebutt to ****** Redom Chat

    14:03:20 [kaperoni] oh more lop talk
    14:03:23 [kaperoni] wont happen
    14:03:42 [kaperoni] i tend to beleive we will see about 1 to 1 rate
    14:03:54 [kaperoni] and rise from there not the high rate they are saying
    14:04:43 [tenmillion] kaperoni but how do you explain the 3 zero articles that explain it as a redenom ?
    14:05:20 [kaperoni] it is just the way they talk. it could be translation. There is no way this will LOP
    14:05:58 [tenmillion] kaperoni what if I told you I found it in a current govt. document stated the same way?
    14:06:10 [kaperoni] why would they ever say, we are going to rv and honor dinar at full value? that would be stupid
    14:06:14 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni i am glad someone says that , your not going to tell me to buy more dinars now are you ...
    14:07:07 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni so you thing it will revalus at 1 to 1 a 25k note would be worth 25k usd ?
    14:07:25 [tenmillion] kaperoni they would not say it...that's true...but I have found it in a document...it's not an Iraqi news article
    14:07:30 [kaperoni] tenmillion I am sure it stated in different docs, but i look at the most important thing...Iraq needs credibility. If they LOP, no-one will trust the,
    14:07:50 [tenmillion] kaperoni I agree
    14:07:53 [kaperoni] kevinkrt1 yup

    14:08:34 [kaperoni] kevinkrt1 Ali stated he thinks it will come out at .26
    14:08:38 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni i have always said that the rate .s of 3 plus are ludicrous , i would be more inclined to believe a rumour if someone said rv Sunday at .86
    14:08:55 [kaperoni] and rise over time controlled
    14:09:01 [kaperoni] but to me that is too low
    14:09:13 [kaperoni] but a 1 to 1 i can deal with
    14:09:18 [kaperoni] maybe a bit higher
    14:09:23 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni i would take .26 tomorrow and never look back .......
    14:09:24 [kaperoni] 1.26 to 1
    14:09:26 [tenmillion] kaperoni I just think that we need to consider all points of view, especially since some opinions are interpretations
    14:09:33 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni when ?
    14:09:35 [kaperoni] tenmillion i agree
    14:10:02 [kaperoni] and i dont want to follow Guru's thoughts who intentionally look the other way
    14:10:30 [kaperoni] but in this case, there are more benefits to Iraq to honor full value than to LOP
    14:10:55 [kaperoni] most of the dinar will got the Feds, right?
    14:11:03 [kaperoni] ali even stated that
    14:11:41 [kaperoni] he is using his 8billion dinar he has as his colateral for a credit line at various larger banks, right?
    14:11:42 [tenmillion] kaperoni most of the dinar will go to the Feds?
    14:12:03 [kaperoni] so if you are exchanging through him, the dinar will go to WF or whoever
    14:12:11 [kaperoni] so it ends up at the feds
    14:12:29 [kaperoni] the feds are not in the gift giving business, right?
    14:12:39 [kaperoni] so why would they give you 4 to 1?
    14:12:42 [kaperoni] they wont
    14:12:49 [tenmillion] kaperoni Yes, I think he would have to have a credit line at some of the big banks
    14:12:51 [kaperoni] because everyone knows it will settle about 3 to 1
    14:13:04 [kaperoni] so the feds get it at .26 to 1
    14:13:06 [kaperoni] ot 1 to 1
    14:13:11 [kaperoni] or 1.26 to 1
    14:13:25 [kaperoni] and bingo, over time they make 3 to 1
    14:13:34 [kaperoni] and buy oil at $32 a barrel
    14:13:57 [tenmillion] kaperoni the feds will buy oil????
    14:13:58 [kaperoni] that is how i look at it.
    14:13:59 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni great when does this all start?
    14:14:11 [kaperoni] tenmillion well the USA will buy oil
    14:14:25 [tenmillion] kaperoni oh...ok
    14:14:40 [kaperoni] kevinkrt1 i dont know
    14:14:42 [kaperoni] soon i hope
    14:14:51 [kevinkrt1] kaperoni still think this year?
    14:15:18 [kaperoni] iraq will not see these denoms until they come back for oil sometime down the road IMO
    14:15:31 [kaperoni] kevinkrt1 Shabibi said this year, i hold him to that
    14:15:50 [kaperoni] kevinkrt1 they need to soon yes otherwise there will be problems
    14:15:58 [kevinkrt1] The Central Bank of Iraq has announced their plans to redenominate the Iraqi Dinar to ease cash transactions. By the end of 2010, i hold a lot of faith in this statement
    14:16:13 [kaperoni] yup
    14:16:30 [RHooghe] kaperoni will the fed use some of the money they make to pay down the deficite
    14:17:08 [kaperoni] RHooghe i would assume so yes
    14:17:26 [kaperoni] why else would they spend like they are?
    14:17:47 [kaperoni] tenmillion now here is another thing that makes me think no LOP
    14:17:52 [RHooghe] kaperoni so once they do that they will work on lowering our taxes right
    14:18:12 [kaperoni] tenmillion the Paris agreements and the non-paris agreements were negoitiated
    14:18:19 [tenmillion] kaperoni yes
    14:18:27 [kaperoni] it states pretty clearly that exact details of those are not public
    14:18:43 [tenmillion] kaperoni so what are you thinking
    14:18:45 [kaperoni] but they say, that in order to get the forgiveness countries often
    14:18:58 [kaperoni] negotiate contracts such as oil or use currency
    14:19:08 [kaperoni] as a way of making agreements
    14:19:37 [kaperoni] I dont know what other countries have, but the USA has 3.7 trillion ( Iread that somewhere)
    14:20:22 [tenmillion] kaperoni it's possible, but the first payment is due next summer
    14:20:31 [kaperoni] if the LOP, why would we give up all our debt war and economic for 3.7 billion?
    14:20:49 [tenmillion] kaperoni how do you know they have 3.7 trillion?
    14:20:59 [kaperoni] lop at 1 to 1 - read it in some docs
    4:21:21 [tenmillion] kaperoni I would like to read them
    LOL
    14:22:31 [kaperoni] lets look at the LOP
    14:22:40 [kaperoni] lets say it LOPs and comes out at 5 to 1
    14:22:41 [tenmillion] ok
    14:22:58 [kaperoni] even that would never hold water
    14:23:38 [kaperoni] evenually it would settle back at 3 to 1
    14:23:56 [kaperoni] and the feds would lose money
    14:24:04 [kaperoni] so it wont be high
    14:24:07 [kaperoni] it will be low
    14:24:14 [kaperoni] and full value
    14:24:32 [tenmillion] so what rate are you thinking?
    14:24:34 [kaperoni] i hate to say, i think ali si right
    14:24:41 [tenmillion] oh no
    14:24:41 [kaperoni] .26 to 1
    14:24:55 [kaperoni] then it will rise
    14:25:05 [kaperoni] but who knows
    14:25:29 [kaperoni] the argument of the .26 to 1 is that more speculators will jump in
    14:25:43 [kaperoni] but that is a good thing
    14:25:48 [kaperoni] for IRaq
    14:26:04 [tenmillion] there are some that would say that the speculators would go in and buy up at .26
    14:26:27 [kaperoni] yes, there is that talk, but the risks still exist
    14:26:32 [tenmillion] well..yes, they would pull in the large notes
    14:27:27 [kaperoni] tenmillion a high value to "get the notes in fast" means nothing to Iraq
    14:27:35 [kaperoni] they will honor them
    14:28:56 [kaperoni] all i can say there ei no way these dinars will get on a plane and go back to the CBI

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    Administrator studdgage's Avatar
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    wouldnt they only lop if they had high inflation, they have what 1% 2 % inflation doesnt make sense to lop when its that low

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    Administrator Mojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studdgage View Post
    wouldnt they only lop if they had high inflation, they have what 1% 2 % inflation doesnt make sense to lop when its that low
    And if they did lop theres no benefit to NO one mainly Iraq

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    Quote Originally Posted by studdgage View Post
    wouldnt they only lop if they had high inflation, they have what 1% 2 % inflation doesnt make sense to lop when its that low
    You can lop cause you have over inflated your currency. In the document its states they will change the nominal value, another word for nominal is (Face Value) Now personally I'm tired of everyone saying its in the translation, well Shabibi isn't stupid he is well educated in finance there is no loss in the translation.

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    Junior member kaperoni's Avatar
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    Ok, beside the words of Shabibi himself back in March that made it clear to me no LOP, here is another valid point that prevents a LOP.

    Currently in curculation there are 50, 250, 500 along with the larger (3 zero notes) such at the 25k that most of us have.
    What prevents a LOP is the fact that those smaller notes are in circulation at the same time at the same exchange rate. Why?

    It is clear, if they LOP's the larger notes such at a 25K note, it would then be worth less than those other small notes. That cannot and will not happen.

    As Medic stated tonight, assume you purchased 1 million dinar at the going rate (1170 to $1), and had all 50 denom bills. And the RV came out at 1 to $1. Your 50's would be worth 1 mil USD! Why? becasue they cannot LOP those bills (they said only the ones with 3 zeros) and they are not removing them from circuation so they will remain as stated at there value. A 50 is 50 dinar.

    Now your 25k note is LOP'd and worth only $25. Do you see? it cannot be worth less than the other notes period. Your 1 mil dinar in 25K note investment would be worth 250,000 usd while the guy with 50 dinar notes had a 1 million usd...lol

    all done with LOP talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaperoni View Post
    Ok, beside the words of Shabibi himself back in March that made it clear to me no LOP, here is another valid point that prevents a LOP.

    Currently in curculation there are 50, 250, 500 along with the larger (3 zero notes) such at the 25k that most of us have.
    What prevents a LOP is the fact that those smaller notes are in circulation at the same time at the same exchange rate. Why?

    It is clear, if they LOP's the larger notes such at a 25K note, it would then be worth less than those other small notes. That cannot and will not happen.

    As Medic stated tonight, assume you purchased 1 million dinar at the going rate (1170 to $1), and had all 50 denom bills. And the RV came out at 1 to $1. Your 50's would be worth 1 mil USD! Why? becasue they cannot LOP those bills (they said only the ones with 3 zeros) and they are not removing them from circuation so they will remain as stated at there value. A 50 is 50 dinar.

    Now your 25k note is LOP'd and worth only $25. Do you see? it cannot be worth less than the other notes period. Your 1 mil dinar in 25K note investment would be worth 250,000 usd while the guy with 50 dinar notes had a 1 million usd...lol

    all done with LOP talk.
    Keep pumping those dinars. Maybe when you guys learn to understand finance and currency you might get it. But I doubt it. Another thing that amazes me it how everything in these documents is so accurate but when it comes down the the dinar you all say no no it got lost in the translation thats not what they mean.
    Last edited by armondtoth; 09-24-2010 at 05:14 AM.

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    Junior member kaperoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armondtoth View Post
    Keep pumping those dinars. Maybe when you guys learn to understand finance and currency you might get it. But I doubt it. Another thing that amazes me it how everything in these documents is so accurate but when it comes down the the dinar you all say no no it got lost in the translation thats not what they mean.


    Not once did i ever pump a dinar. You are way off base and simply wrong. I tried to make a basic explanation and fundamental analysis that is it not possible to LOP under the circumstance. I never said the information posted was lost in translation, but I have from time to time stated that some parts may have been. None the less, there is no chance of a LOP as the information provided clarifies this. There is nothing stated by either Shabibi, or Salah, that would say there is a LOP. It is your interpretation and that interpretation is wrong because it is not possible due to the existence of smaller denominations in circulation at the present time. My advice to you my friend is to read more than just news articles. You will find that besides rebuiding iraq, for several years they have been relationship building. You don't make promises, trade currencies, or award contracts only to renig at a later point of you plan to become a wealthy, stable, and worldly country. Even if they wanted too, the World Bank and IMF would not let them. If you don't agree, so be it, but don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of "pumping" dinar. NO pizza for you!
    Last edited by kaperoni; 09-24-2010 at 09:32 AM.

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    You are making it sound like they cannot simply introduce another edition of the dinar to accomodate a 'lop'.

    I dont understand where they would lose any credibility if they provide a means in which to exchange your old currency for the new without any loss to the person, company, gov, etc. doing an exchange. If they dont lose money there is not an ounce of credibility lost.

    This is one of the risks that we all should have understood coming into this. We all hope for the best, a no 'lop' scenario with a good return - however, we should all be prepared for the possibility that there will not be a windfall in this venture and that we might actually lose a little because of cost of purchase and exchange. To do so or convince others otherwise, at least IMO, is being very irresponsible.

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    Executive dbcooper's Avatar
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    Hey Kap, First off..Ali has never and will never state anything concerning speculation or time lines for an RV. I have spoke with him many many times.. he will not share info period. He will be breaking the law if he speculates. As far as the .26 cents goes, that figure was recognized as a possible rate because of the other countries producing oil that have very similar amounts of currency in circulation and similar oil production, there is no reason for it to be much more or less than the other countries. As Iraq increases it oil production, natural gas, gasoline etc. we can and will see the rate rise over time. I personally do not think they can support a 1 to 1 rv at this time, Shabibi is not stupid, he will not put his country into a 75 trillion dollar debt by one stroke of his pen...it would take 30 plus years to pay that debt back. It does not matter so much whether or not Governments retain the most Dinar...they are still responsible for backing it at one point in time or another, it does not matter if they "trade" their dinar for oil, it is still being covered by Iraq. If they can only produce and transport 2.7 million barrels per day..and they are barely making enough money to run their country..how can they produce enough in the short term to pay for both? They can't. I dont mean to pick on you or put you down, but I remember when you were stating 1 to 1 before, then you raised your opinion all over the board..as high as 3 plus like all the gurus are saying, now your back to 1 to 1. IMO, your credibility is compromised at this point. Furthermore you cannot go from 25 billion old dinars in circulation to 18 to 20 TRILLION and have the same exchange rate, its mathematically impossible. The DFI fund is key here to see what they have in "savings" and what they can afford to "swap" dollars for dinars at. They will not indebt there country for years to come.

    One possibility that is still on the table is if they remove the three zero's from the notes, at the same time RV at 1 to 1, the dinar has not lost or gained in value, but they will affectively removed 99% of the dinar in circulation, that brings them back to about 27 billion dinars in circulation, at that time the rate could rise to its former amount of 3 plus...the governments and private people will have then tripled their investment. I personally do not think they will do that..but it is possible, I think they are leaving this on the table to curtail the big speculators, but the fact is that we are being given misinformation for a reason JMHO.

    No one that I know off can confirm any accurate amount of dinar being help by the governments around the globe, however, it has been stated many times that the US Government holds 5 to 7 trillion, that figure may or may not include what is being help by the citizens, that being said, we have no way to estimate the amount that China, Russia, France, Britain and Canada hold, so how many Dinars are subkject to being "cashed" in by private citizens?

    Ali has told me that he is contracted to sell 100 billion dinars per month, thats 1.2 trillion per year, hes been selling since 2004, not at that amount, but I will see if he will tell me the total amount he has sold, don't forget all the other dealers and how much they may have sold, thats alot of Dinar for Iraq to cover.
    Last edited by dbcooper; 09-24-2010 at 11:39 AM.
    If its not on SD...it's probably crap!

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    Quote Originally Posted by *dbcooper View Post
    Hey Kap, First off..Ali has never and will never state anything concerning speculation or time lines for an RV. I have spoke with him many many times.. he will not share info period. He will be breaking the law if he speculates. As far as the .26 cents goes, that figure was recognized as a possible rate because of the other countries producing oil that have very similar amounts of currency in circulation and similar oil production, there is no reason for it to be much more or less than the other countries. As Iraq increases it oil production, natural gas, gasoline etc. we can and will see the rate rise over time. I personally do not think they can support a 1 to 1 rv at this time, Shabibi is not stupid, he will not put his country into a 75 trillion dollar debt by one stroke of his pen...it would take 30 plus years to pay that debt back. It does not matter so much whether or not Governments retain the most Dinar...they are still responsible for backing it at one point in time or another, it does not matter if they "trade" their dinar for oil, it is still being covered by Iraq. If they can only produce and transport 2.7 million barrels per day..and they are barely making enough money to run their country..how can they produce enough in the short term to pay for both? They can't. I dont mean to pick on you or put you down, but I remember when you were stating 1 to 1 before, then you raised your opinion all over the board..as high as 3 plus like all the gurus are saying, now your back to 1 to 1. IMO, your credibility is compromised at this point. Furthermore you cannot go from 25 billion old dinars in circulation to 18 to 20 TRILLION and have the same exchange rate, its mathematically impossible. The DFI fund is key here to see what they have in "savings" and what they can afford to "swap" dollars for dinars at. They will not indebt there country for years to come.

    One possibility that is still on the table is if they remove the three zero's from the notes, at the same time RV at 1 to 1, the dinar has not lost or gained in value, but they will affectively removed 99% of the dinar in circulation, that brings them back to about 27 billion dinars in circulation, at that time the rate could rise to its former amount of 3 plus...the governments and private people will have then tripled their investment. I personally do not think they will do that..but it is possible, I think they are leaving this on the table to curtail the big speculators, but the fact is that we are being given misinformation for a reason JMHO.
    Thank you db someone else who understands.

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